Vērotāj, no HWF vairāki viedokļi un pārdomas, ļoti interesanti, īpaši varbūt Tev un citiem ilggadējiem vērotājiem ar pieredzi, tāpēc, lai būtu max saprotams konteksts, iekopēšu visu JudyB citēto un pārdomas...
By: JudyB on Sunday, March 09 2014 @ 04:31 PM EDT
http://www.hancockwildlife.org/forum/vi ... w=5&page=2
Liana, Bev and mia, I am going to quote your posts because it may take me a while to reply.
Quote by: lianaliesma
wave Hi, thanks for scaps and info. I am very sorry for Lucy but hope she will be all right Wub... Would like to ask what could be the reasons for change of the mate- are there some investigations made with special conclusions? I have read somewhere that if a pair has no chicks it could happen... Thank you. Smile
Quote by: IrishEyes
Good Afternoon everyone..............thank you all for your coverage of this nest..........
THis is just my opinion but i feel the need to express it......... Do we know for sure that this male in the nest is Larry? I find it very strange that if this is Larry that he has taken so quickly to the IF... I don't think Larry would have given up on Lucy that fast.......my goodness just watching them in the nest...how Larry doubted on her and if there is such a thing as eagle hugs he gave her one every night that he saw she was tucked in and safe,...... unless if this is Larry........ he knows that some thing has happened to Lucy and i hope that is not the case............. I saw an IM take over a nest once....... a little different from what is happening here..... there was a chick and and an egg that was about to hatch.............. that being said the chick died and of course the other egg didn't hatch................ my point is... it took the Res.Female a long time before she accepted the IM............. she did and they are a beautiful couple today..... and raised a few chicks.............. the other thing is and i find this hard also.. could it be that If this is the Res. Male ....he is thinking egg laying time and he knows that something happened to Lucy.......... one other thing.... none of us know for sure that Lucy would not have been able to lay a fertile egg this season............... i am watching a nest now where an Eagle with a recent leg/ foot injury laid two eggs and one hatch....... and they have a beautiful healthy chick..........I think this is a bonded pair in this nest...... JMO.......
I am sorry....... if me expressing myself is upsetting......... hug
Quote by: mia
hug Bev, thanks for your thoughts.
I´m not an expert to recognize Larry, but actually it does look like Larry. Chin I trust the "experts" who follow this pair on daily basis.
I don´t know about the fertility of Lucy either, but honesty I´ve been a bit doubtful about Lucy & the eggs... That´s why I haven´t watched this cam so much this year. very embarrassed Has anyone seen Lucy and Larry mating this year?
I want the best for Lucy, I hope she has a "safe place" where to sleep and I hope she has a good and fulfilling life despite of her injury. I´m also aware her life can be shorter because of her injury. I also want the best for Larry and I trust his decisions. He wants to have eggs & offspring. I hope he gets what he wants and deserves too... Red Heart
________________
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Bev and mia. You make some very good points. And Liana, I am hoping that we'll hear more from Darrin and the other folks involved with Eagles4Kids; I know they have experts who have been following Lucy's progress, and they may have some information to add.
For those who don't "know" me, I've been watching eagle cams almost since the beginning (there were a couple of cams online before David Hancock teamed up with Doug Carrick to bring the Hornby cam to the web in the spring of 2006 - but it was Hornby that caught everyone's attention) - and I started watching cams in April 2006. I enjoy watching the cams - but I also enjoy gathering data - so over the years, rather than focus on a particular nest or two, I've more or less browsed a lot of cams - which means I've gathered a lot of eagle (and osprey) trivia. I am not an expert - I've never studied eagles in school, or worked with them the way David Hancock has - but I've read a lot and and observed a number of nests - and have had the good fortune to learn about forums like this one where many other people post their observations! So that is the background for my thoughts about what we've seen so far.
I think that like many of us, I've felt that Lucy and Larry had a special bond, beyond that of most pairs. When I learned that he had to have been feeding her for weeks while she recovered from the damage to her feet, I was amazed. I know that males will bring food to their mates as part of the annual courtship and re-bonding before they lay eggs, perhaps demonstrating that the male will be able to take care of her and their chicks. And I know that males provide a majority of the food during incubation and the first part of brooding, when the females spend most of their time on the nest. But I'd always heard that the adults didn't necessarily stay together after the chicks had fledged and left the area - though perhaps that's more true in places like BC where most eagles flock to the salmon rivers, than in areas where the eagles stay in or near their territory year round.
So my first thought, when I read about the intruders, was that it would be hard for Larry and Lucy to defend the nest, so perhaps they would leave the territory to the newcomers, and build a new nest somewhere a little more remote. I know osprey can build nests very fast, and I think I have read that experienced eagles can build a nest in a week or so - not as fancy as this one, but adequate for laying eggs. And because I'd seen them together and watched him accommodate her abilities and the challenges that have faced her over the past year and a half - it never occurred to me that he wouldn't go with her if she left. And the romantic human part of me is still a bit miffed about that.
But I am analytical by nature, and have been trying to look at it from that perspective (once I got done calling him a feathered jerk and two-timer!).
Bev, I'm thinking that one thing is different here than in the nest in West Virginia that you mentioned, and that is that it's getting to be time to lay eggs - and that's a very powerful instinct, I think. I'm remembering an osprey nest we watched, where the female returned from migration - and her mate did not. She worked on her nest, and chased off other osprey - but when it was time for her to lay eggs, she laid an infertile egg (eagles and osprey can do that without a mate) - and she bonded with the next male who stopped by (who happily turned out to be a good provider and partner for her). There were a few moments of awkwardness - but nothing like the long courtship we witnessed at the West Virginia nest, before the female accepted the new male. So perhaps the urgency of laying eggs is taking precedence over the "getting to know you" period we've seen at NCTC and Turtle Bay and Sauces Canyon, where the takeover happened after eggs were laid.
The first attempt at a nest takeover that I saw was on the Maine Bald Eagle cam in 2007. The pair had lost their just-hatched chicks to a terrible storm - and that storm had knocked down a number of nests, so there were a lot of nest-less eagles in the area. The biologists associated with that cam said that it appeared that eagles were actually more bonded to their nest than to each other - and said that unless there are eggs or chicks to defend, even eagles who have been partners for a long time won't interfere if a new eagle attacks their mate in an attempt to take over the nest. I found (and still find) that hard to accept as a human - but I can see that the primary goal for eagles is survival of the species and survival of their own genes. In the case of the Maine nest, the intruder was male, and the female stood by while he fought with the resident male. Both males mated with her during the week or so that the battle went on, and while we thought she was more receptive to her mate, she didn't do anything to prevent the intruder from mating when he approached her. Eventually the resident male won - I think the intruder decided there had to be an easier nest to take over, because the male was very fierce in his defense of the nest. But the loss of the chicks and the fight took a toll - the pair didn't nest for several years, and we don't actually know if the eagles using the nest now are one or both of the original pair, or a new pair.
Mia, I have gotten the impression from some of what I've seen and read that Lucy may not have been that willing to mate. I had not been watching the nest, so don't know how comfortable she'd be standing while a male was on her back moving around actively. I'm quite amazed that the pair at our Delta 2 nest seem to be mating several times a day - and have been for a week or two now - even though she is only just beginning to put weight on her injured leg. But her other leg is fine and she's a strong eagle. It's my impression that Lucy frequently sleeps in the nest - which makes me wonder if she has trouble gripping with her good leg. If she does, it might be hard for her to mate. And for better or worse, Larry needs to pass on his genes - it's probably the strongest instinct he has.
The Institute for Wildlife Studies has a long-term program to reintroduce bald eagles to the Channel Islands off the coast of southern California. All their eagles have wing tags, so it's fairly easy to know who is where. It's my impression from their reports that it's very common for young pairs to try to nest, and if it doesn't work, after a year or two, they may end up nesting with someone else. We may be seeing the same thing happen from the other side of the age spectrum - one of the nesting females there is almost 30 years old, and hasn't had chicks for four years, though she lays eggs most years. A new male moved in two years ago - and as there isn't a cam there, just dedicated observers, we really don't know if the new male chased the old one out, or if the previous male decided to leave.
I'm not sure if any of this is useful - I am known for rambling on, and think I've started to do that here. I do know that this is hard to watch - and am hoping very much that we'll get news that Lucy is alive and well, and has found her own little territory.
hug
Pievienots 10.martā
By: Debs on Monday, March 10 2014 @ 01:58 AM EDT
Darrin wave Thanks for the link to your report; our thoughts and prayers go out to Lucy & Larry and to all the students at Blair we know this situation is very difficult for all of us that love this pair
but certainly it must be even more difficult for those children...so my heart goes out to all of them hug
I wish i could join the majority here that believe the male in the nest is Larry but unfortunately i do not....I think its the male intruder in the nest as these birds behave like a bonded pair...
i realize there may be some feather markers to support it being Larry but feathers change/move and are not generally good identifiers to id birds.
i have seen a few nest take overs in the past 9 seasons and on each occurrence it took months before the new mate was accepted ... So far we have not observed any resistance with this pair
in the nest so it leads me to believe that this pair is established...a bonded pair. I will definitely keep an open mind as i believe we are always learning and the birds are great teachers ...
but right now my experience leads me to believe that this is a bonded pair in the nest. Anyway these are my impressions that i wanted to share ...
i will continue to pray that we have word on Lucy Wub soon as i know that will bring comfort to all of us that love this pair.
Good luck tomorrow and please tell the students we are thinking of them (((hugs)) to everyone here.
By Darrin Briggs ~ E4KWe - Wait And Observe
http://www.eagles4kids.com/daily-update ... serve.html